shopping cart empty
Brexit Chaos
Login to post a new topic and to write a reply.
Thread Tools Rate This Thread


Search within thread:

Login to rate this thread.
#31 (permalink)      7/10/2018 10:19:03 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
mickd
Member
  • JoinedDec 2013
  • Posts 4371
  • Reviews 154
  • Kudos12006
+1 details
HELP FOR HEROES SUPPORT OUR TROOPS.
#32 (permalink)      7/10/2018 12:12:18 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
gav616
Member
  • JoinedJan 2017
  • Posts 455
  • Reviews 16
  • Kudos461
+1 details
ohh clucking bell..
#33 (permalink)      7/10/2018 1:05:05 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
Andy.lion
Member
  • JoinedMay 2015
  • Posts 8342
  • Reviews 25
  • Kudos21671
+6 details
F.Y.I. wrote:

One of the saddest things about the Brexit discussion as it is so often held is that it sets Europeans against one another as if a dislike of the institution of the EU has to in some way translate to a dislike for Europe as a continent, or more often for a dislike of its member nations besides Britain. I'm British. I fucking love Europe, and this, quite frankly, pisses me right off.Europe as a group of individual countries is a varied, beautiful, and fascinating place which deserves to have the sovereignty of its member nations respected, so long as we don't start doing evil stuff like invading our neighbours, aiding terrorists, or starting nuclear wars.Anyone who takes the time and mental effort to look (I mean seriously look without party-political or other ideological blinkers) at the institution of the European Union should be able to see that that it is a bloated federalist self-serving would-be super-state which cares mainly about aggregating as much power to itself as it can get away with, and not about protecting the quality of life of the populations which have been falling increasingly under its control.Dan Hannan puts it better than I ever could...




Which is why the referendum should actually have been "Leave and hope for best" or "Remain and reform".

After a long conversation with an incredibly intelligent friend of mine (ex-SWP, historian by trade) I am actually more inclined to distance the UK from the EU. I would just have preffered to start negotiations and have a cross-party group spend a reasonable amount of time ie a few years disentangling us gently with a common goal and a thoughtful plan. As opposed to triggering article 50 after a brief dirty campaign of disinformation and letting one fragmented party of self-serving multi-millionaires use it as a political game of pass the parcel. The tortuous thrashing of the Tory party has put us in the worst negotiating position possible and it must be obvious to the EU bureaucrats that there has been very little thought put into the "strategy" giving them huge amounts of leverage.

Only the independently wealthy will benefit from what is happening right now.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....
#34 (permalink)      7/10/2018 2:35:01 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
A_Stack_O_The_Clones
Member
  • JoinedSep 2016
  • Posts 239
  • Reviews 1
  • Kudos149
+1 details
Andy.lion wrote:

"Remain and reform"


That's been attempted since Maastricht, and it hasn't been working. The EEC had some merits, the EU as it stands is a fundamentally stupid solution to a problem that hasn't existed for 80 years and it's only getting worse.

#35 (permalink)      7/10/2018 3:48:59 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Vostock
Member
  • JoinedJul 2014
  • Posts 13015
  • Reviews 361
  • Kudos14976
bbbbbbuuuttt dem germanz run the EU....



so does 'the problem' exist or not, brexiteers can't have it both ways.
#36 (permalink)      7/10/2018 4:40:49 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
divingduck
Member
  • JoinedMar 2014
  • Posts 994
  • Reviews 60
  • Kudos2154
+2 details
#37 (permalink)      7/10/2018 7:35:50 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
RussG
Member
  • JoinedMay 2015
  • Posts 2032
  • Reviews 90
  • Kudos1911
+1 details
Andy.lion wrote:

"Remain and reform".

Quite right,you can only make changes to the EU if you remain. A unified Europe, wonderful, all for that but the EU is a bloated sick puppy that needs to be put down.

Brexit. The richer nations Germany,France & Italy will have to dig deeper into their pockets to support the poorer EU members. This is why the UK will pay the price for leaving the EU.

If the UK manages to leave without any financial hardship, what other countries would follow.

France & Germany are all in, Spain & Italy appear to be undecided.

#38 (permalink)      7/10/2018 9:02:20 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
ptitfour
Member
  • JoinedJan 2014
  • Posts 10707
  • Reviews 148
  • Kudos17213
+1 details
in 50 or 100 years , how many English should need to migrate ?

Edited on 7/10/2018 at 9:04 PM. Reason:
#39 (permalink)      7/10/2018 9:12:32 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
RussG
Member
  • JoinedMay 2015
  • Posts 2032
  • Reviews 90
  • Kudos1911
+3 details
ptitfour wrote:

in 50 or 100 years , how many English should need to migrate ?

Maybe all of us.

#40 (permalink)      7/10/2018 9:15:08 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
ptitfour
Member
  • JoinedJan 2014
  • Posts 10707
  • Reviews 148
  • Kudos17213
+1 details
loll :) i don't hope for them , but you know it's just question and relativism
#41 (permalink)      7/11/2018 7:28:24 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Avatar
F.Y.I.
Member
  • JoinedAug 2017
  • Posts 1792
  • Reviews 0
  • Kudos9853
+2 details
Andy.lion wrote:

Which is why the referendum should actually have been "Leave and hope for best" or "Remain and reform".

While I agree or at least sympathise with a lot of what you posted, I believe that the first option as you have phrased it ("Leave and hope for best") is potentially a bit misleading, since it might be seen to imply that a faith in remaining would itself have been propped up by something more substantial than hope.

The EU has been using misplaced hope as collateral for far too long already imo. So long as we all have the guts to muster a coalition army if a member state requires defense which any one state could not provide alone, then we're all gravy. The EU can cram its mountains of legislation and ambitions to acquire taxation without representation up its arse.

P.S. God save the Queen.

(OK well not God because atheism. And not the Queen because we don't have dragons. But anyway, I'm off to hang out bunting and watch cricket. Had enough of seeing fat sweaty bureaucrats look at Daniel Hannan in the European Parliament as if he just insulted their mothers simply because he doesn't want to live in the Death Star with them any longer.)

R.I.P. Saman Kunan, true hero.